Breastfeeding at work and other things

[verve_rat]

http://stuff.co.nz/4449330a10.html

The Government is to legislate to give women the right to breastfeed their babies at work – and will also provide for minimum meal and rest breaks for all workers.


Labour Minister Trevor Mallard and his Cabinet colleague Maryan Street announced the moves at the centenary commemorations of the 1908 Blackball miners' strike over meal breaks.

The ministers also announced plans to allow shift workers to transfer their public holidays.

Mr Mallard said the proposed changes to legislation would be introduced this year.

Announcing the changes, they said it might surprise people to learn there were no statutory requirements for meal and rest breaks.

Ms Street said 93 per cent of active collective agreements provided for rest and meal breaks but anecdotal evidence suggested some workplaces – particularly in the service and manufacturing sectors – were providing less than optimal breaks.

Under the changes to be made to the Employment Relations Act:

* Someone working a standard eight-hour day would be entitled to a minimum of two 10-minute paid rest breaks and a half hour unpaid meal break throughout the day. The breaks would have to be fairly timed so a meal break was taken as near as practicable to the middle of the work period. If an employment agreement had more generous entitlements, then these would apply.

* Employers would be required to provide, where reasonable and practical, facilities and breaks for employees who wished to breastfeed. A code of employment practice would guide employers on how to uphold the obligations.

Ms Street said there was currently no explicit legal protection ensuring women had the right to breastfeed their babies at work.

Evidence suggested access to breastfeeding breaks and facilities in the workplace was mixed, and the extent to which discrimination on the grounds of breastfeeding was understood to be prohibited was mixed, she said.

The law would be changed to explicitly prevent discrimination on the basis of breastfeeding, she said.

"The definition of `sex' as a prohibited ground for discrimination in the Human Rights and Employment Relations Acts is already interpreted as extending to breastfeeding but stronger and more explicit protections are needed in the workplace context."

Mr Mallard said a change would also be made to the Holidays Act to allow the transfer of public holidays for someone who worked a shift that crossed the hour of midnight on a public holiday.

The original intention of the Act was to provide flexibility in allowing the transfer of a public holiday from a day listed in the Act to another day for reasons for cultural or personal significance, or convenience.

However, a recent Supreme Court decision – New Zealand Airline Pilots' Association Industrial Union of Workers Incorporated v Air New Zealand Ltd – had ruled that an employer and employee could not transfer a public holiday from a day listed in the Act to another day.

"This has had a significant effect on many businesses that operate shifts that span two calendar days," Mr Mallard said.

Where a shift had ended on a public holiday, many businesses had had agreements with their workers to transfer the public holiday to the following shift the employee would have worked.

However, as a result of the Supreme Court decision, some businesses now stopped work at midnight and resumed the shift 24 hours later, which meant employees were working a split shift and not able to have a whole working day off as a public holiday.

Ms Street said the proposed change was supported by the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions and Business New Zealand as it would benefit both employers and employees.

The Government was planning a wider review of the effectiveness of the Holidays Act, and the issue of employees or employers transferring public holidays for reasons of cultural or personal significance or convenience would be considered.

So would breastfeeding at work mean you have a legal right to bring your kids to work? I fail to see how this could work?

And also I see that shift workers get some love, but weekend workers with Monday off still get shafted.

[ChaosWulf]

Just sounds like lip service in order to get the "Mom" vote to me. What is the point of being able to breastfeed at work if you're not able to have a baby with you at work? Pointless, but undoubtedly it'll win the La Leche nazi's over.

[Haydos]

I'm fine with it on the fact that mothers shouldn't be discriminated against but on the count that mothers are best served by being mothers at home? That's what Labour needs to endorse.

[Sp0nge]

Originally Posted by stuff

The Government is to legislate to give women the right to breastfeed their babies at work – and will also provide for minimum meal and rest breaks for all workers.

awesome.

i for one welcome the right to lactate in the workplace, and have long been a fan of long tea breaks.

btw, mothers are mothers in society, not just at home...
...so haydos, cook me some eggs, bitch.

[Draco T Bastard]

Originally Posted by ChaosWulf

Just sounds like lip service in order to get the "Mom" vote to me. What is the point of being able to breastfeed at work if you're not able to have a baby with you at work?

Not all workplaces prevent you from having children there.

I'm fine with it on the fact that mothers shouldn't be discriminated against but on the count that mothers are best served by being mothers at home? That's what Labour needs to endorse.

Labour needs to endorse the idea that mothers should stay at home barefoot and pregnant?

Yeah, um, dude - we kinda got over that type of misogynist BS quite awhile ago - probably before you were born.

[Hannibal]

Originally Posted by ChaosWulf

Pointless, but undoubtedly it'll win the La Leche nazi's over.

Oh you mean those nazi's who volunteer their free time to help new mothers feed their babies. right... what do you work for Nestle or something?

douchebag

[Ab]

sv_popcorn 1

[verve_rat]

Yeah, but you only have 10 min to enjoy that popcorn. FFS who has a less than 15 min tea break?

[xor]

Originally Posted by verve_rat

Yeah, but you only have 10 min to enjoy that popcorn. FFS who has a less than 15 min tea break?

Most people take about 10minutes to get a coffee too

[leadinjector]

meh, my 30 minute lunch break is already paid

[Golden Teapot]

Originally Posted by Hannibal

Oh you mean those nazi's who volunteer their free time to help new mothers feed their babies.

The ones I've met are like the Christians you love i.e. far more trouble than they are worth.

[StN]

^^ I concur - when we were doing the ante natal thing, they flatly refused to give any advice on what would happen if you were unable to BF, and had to use formula. Bingo.

[fixed_truth]

Announcing the changes, they said it might surprise people to learn there were no statutory requirements for meal and rest breaks.

great that minimum human right standards are finally being legislated - coz it would be hard to find a Key that would open this door

Employers would be required to provide, where reasonable and practical, facilities and breaks for employees who wished to breastfeed.

im sure at least a suitable place for mothers to express milk will be quite a relief

[funnel web]

Yes we had the same issues when my wife gave birth to our daughter. She required a c section due to complication hence her milk took a little longer than normal to arrive. When I asked about a formula for our daughter I was told that we can't tell you to use a formula you have to ask for it and oh can you sign this form. Um we have a crying hungry baby and you can't tell me to use a formula...fuckers.

Oh an ante natal ....complete waste of fucking time. We went once and that was it.

[ChaosWulf]

Originally Posted by Haydos

mothers are best served by being mothers at home? That's what Labour needs to endorse.

Interesting statement. I'd be curious to know how could Labour endorse mothers being at home without basically encouraging a DPB nation. And a lot of workplaces would suffer greatly if mothers didn't come back into the workforce, the NZ economy depends on a certain number of people working at any given time. I'm not saying the system is perfect now, but all the possible solutions I've heard previously seem to have very serious side effects to counterbalance them.

[Haydos]

Originally Posted by ChaosWulf

Interesting statement. I'd be curious to know how could Labour endorse mothers being at home without basically encouraging a DPB nation. And a lot of workplaces would suffer greatly if mothers didn't come back into the workforce, the NZ economy depends on a certain number of people working at any given time. I'm not saying the system is perfect now, but all the possible solutions I've heard previously seem to have very serious side effects to counterbalance them.

The statement doesn't take into account the string of teenage moms who have no earning worth and don't put taxes into the system at any point in their life, if you will - those, should be enforced long term contraception in my view because ultimately they're the ones causing the world to be over populated.

If you take a look at the healthiness of children, it's a proven fact that those that have the mother (not the father) stay at home for the formulative years of their life are far more healthy, happy and intelligent on a general basis.

Labour being left wing needs to encourage this - do they not? That's the idea of a left wing party

National being centre/right shouldn't encourage it, they should encourage stable relationships and the earning power of the couple together to allow the mother to stay home.

[Lylmik]

Originally Posted by Haydos

Labour being left wing needs to encourage this - do they not? That's the idea of a left wing party

There are so many things wrong with what you said that I hardly see the point it responding, but there was one thing in particular that I wanted to comment on:

You think that Labour being "left wing" (as if that actually means something specific) or Liberal means that they want women to stay at home with the kids?

Do you have any idea about anything?

[Torka]

Too much emphasis is placed on the freedom of the parent. I think it's important for the child to have at least one parent at home.

For most of my childhood our father was at home while mum worked so I don't think it matters so much which parent it is.

[cyc]

Originally Posted by Torka

Too much emphasis is placed on the freedom of the parent. I think it's important for the child to have at least one parent at home.

For most of my childhood our father was at home while mum worked so I don't think it matters so much which parent it is.

*clap*

Finally someone gets it right.

[MadMax]

Originally Posted by Haydos

If you take a look at the healthiness of children, it's a proven fact that those that have the mother (not the father) stay at home for the formulative years of their life are far more healthy, happy and intelligent on a general basis.

says who?

nz is so analysed with statistics eventually they find stupid problems that are probably made up to start with

[Sp0nge]

"left wing" is all about social equality and fairer distribution of wealth

mothers should have the opportunity to reenter the workforce if they choose to.
lower incomed families should have the opportunity to move out of poverty.

that is why Labour has introduced things such as Working for Families, 20 hours free early childhood education, and now these breastfeeding changes.

Labour is not doing this just to get the "mom" vote....
it is part of a deliberate and well thought out process of social change.

[Hannibal]

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

The ones I've met are like the Christians you love i.e. far more trouble than they are worth.

For the most part it's proven that Christians and other religious basically have a brain defect or well.. brain damage. Look to the recent research that shows those with a specific injury to a specific part of the brain are all 'born agains' or obsessed with religion. There are some issues with that part of the brain in the religious and that is where their motivation lies. La Leche may have religious roots but these days they are in a scientific and political death match which is women vs. corporates / natural vs. synthetics. Women are being perpetually brainwashed to believe formula is best, their milk is not good enough or plentiful enough, that they need to 'top up' their milk with formula, that feeding is inappropriate or sexual and disgusting. It's all one big PR scam ffs and the result are millions of sick adults down the road with lower IQs who were dosed with the McD's of sustenance as babies. La Leche are real people who do care about the health of babies, and some of you sheep side with the corporations. Fuck I can only laugh and make sheep noises BAAAAAAAA BAAAAAA....

[reac]

Originally Posted by Hannibal

Fuck I can only laugh and make sheep noises BAAAAAAAA BAAAAAA....

Never a truer word spoken.

[chiquelet]

My thoughts:

It's great that the government want to encourage women to continue bfeeding their babies for as long as possible, because there is no doubt that in most cases, breast is best. However, most women don't have the luxury of having their babies close by when they're at work, so really it's more about making it easier for women to express at work (as Sponge said I think). Again, that's great because it's still breast milk.

However, I really doubt (have no evidence for this, it's just based on my gut) that most women who go back into fulltime work would continue to bfeed/express whilst at work. Expressing is a pain in the ass, and is time-consuming. I'd imagine that women returning to the workforce full time would either wean their babies completely, or just bfeed the breakfast and bedtime feeds. So really this legislation will just look good, but be of no practical relevance to many women.

Additonally, I agree with Haydos when he says that the government should really be encouraging mums to stay at home with their kids. I think many women would leap at the chance to stay home with their kids for at least the first five yers. I'm sure there are some who return to work early because they just love their job so much, but I think most women return to work before they or their baby is ready simply because of financial necessity. I know that WFF has made it possible for many mums to stay at home, but I think the government needs to do more (a better paid parental leave system maybe?). Kids need a parent at home during their formative years, and I'm not impressed with the government enticing mums (generally) of pre-school children back into the work force with the 20hours free childcare carrot.

Edit - as for La Leche, it's a bit rough calling them bfeeding nazis. A friend of mine contacted them when she was having a hard time feeding, and they were a great support to her *shrugs* As far as I know the only way you're going to have contact with them is if you instigate it. It's not like they're roaming maternity wards bombarding women with propaganda.

[Redneck]

Originally Posted by Haydos

they should encourage stable relationships and the earning power of the couple together to allow the father to stay home.

Fixed.

[Hannibal]

Originally Posted by Redneck

Fixed.

babies like boobs not moobs :P

[Redneck]

Boob -> pump -> bottle -> fridge

[Pepsi]

I remember being told about this when I was pregnant the first time, that when I returned to work my employer would have to allow time for me to bf or express as well as provide a suitable location to do so, i.e. not the womens toilets. We don't have a sick bay or anything like that and all the offices have see through glass walls so fuck knows where I would have done it?? Not that I would have wanted to at work anyway really..

Expressed breast milk is ok up to 48 hours in the fridge so surely women would rather do that shit at home?

[Ab]

Breastfeed baby in the morning. Boobies empty. Nothing to express.

Go to work. Boobies fill up during the day. By mid afternoon, your over-full breasts are screaming in pain and your nipples are leaking through your shirt.

I am told that this situation is suboptimal from perspectives of comfort, convenience, and professionalism.

[Painty]

Originally Posted by Hannibal

Oh you mean those nazi's who volunteer their free time to help new mothers feed their babies. right... what do you work for Nestle or something?

douchebag

Unlike the govt subsidised mob who are there to make you feel that you are a bad parent for choosing to bottlefeed. And in fact go out of their way to fail entirely to provide any reasonable information to enable informed decision making.

The "breast is best" mob really piss me off. It is worse than dealing with a bunch of slavering religious nut hell bent on converting you.

For parents who have medical needs for bottlefeeding they still try to make you feel like a second class person and concentrate on the breast feeding to the detriment of everything else.

We experienced this with two children. The first required a visit to starship on his third day after WE insisted the paedetrician saw him. THe hospital midwives were more concerned about him breastfeeding (he wasn't properly.

The second child was a masher (caused my wife to bleed) and my wife had significant other medical complications which nearly killed her but again the midwives were totally focussed on the breast feeding and didnt really seem to give a shit about mum.

For our last child we turned up and said "she's being botttle fed with formula".

The hospital midwife looked like we had just spat in her eye.

All for breast feeding if it is practical but I think there is too much negative publicity against bottle feeding. For the first 6 weeks sure it isbest since bubs gets anitbodies from mum but why do you think they have 6 weeek immunisation shots?? Because after that time mum is just providing milk.

/me passes Ab more popcorn

[ChaosWulf]

Originally Posted by Torka

Too much emphasis is placed on the freedom of the parent. I think it's important for the child to have at least one parent at home.

For most of my childhood our father was at home while mum worked so I don't think it matters so much which parent it is.

Well put. And yeah, my dad looked after us (my sisters & I) while we were too young for school, and it hasn't stunted us too badly

Painty - sounds like your wife had a rotten time of it :/ Common story though, whether through the hospital system or La Leche, the "Breast Is Best" squad really do seem to do an awful lot of judging at a really sensitive time. It's just one of those things though, everyone has a strong opinion on childrearing - they all know what worked for them, or their mothers, wives, sisters hairdressers dog-groomers next-door-neighbour ... and try to ram it down peoples throats like it's gospel.

Personally - if you've had a good lactating experience through La Leche, awesome. I just don't know many who have.
And if you can breastfeed at work, cool. Again, I just can't see how this would work for most people. I have been at workplaces which have allowed for breastfeeding & have supplied nursing rooms - and they were completely unused.
It's all well and good to say "we want breastfeeding allowed at work", but to me this doesn't fix a damn thing. Mothers can't afford to stay at home and look after their kids, and workplaces still expect mothers to work overtime/weekends/never take sick days, and judge them as "weak" and not worthy of promotion or payraise if they can't. Looking at how the workplace treats mothers, this law change just seems .. well, completely fucking redundant.


Disclaimer; The opinions in this rant are solely the property of the writer, and are worth approximately what you paid for them. The writer reserves the right to dislike La Leche, whiney non-smokers (or any other band-wagoners), fervent born-again Christians, arrogant cyclists who ride three abreast through town and any other closed-minded loud-mouthed bigots obsessed with their own point of view and blind to anyone else’s. Cheers.

[flic]

Next thing we know workplaces will need to supply a creche

[Haydos]

Look, too many people want to throw the little spanner up about "What about the man staying at home" to remove the perceived sexism that seems to have propped up in the thirty years or so.

When children are taken into account - the best place for a woman to be is home.. this is not because women are lesser than men, this is simply because they are better suited through thousands and thousands of years of evolving due to environment and hardwired genetics to be better nurturers, teachers and carers for their children then men are.

There are of course exceptions to the rules but in my viewpoint and if I ever have a child, it will be with a mother who wants to spend the formulative years of her childs life, living at home with the child.

Labour supports the idea of welfare and being able to afford a family, well look at the discipline issues and the creeping nature of abnormal psychology in the youth today - funnily how it coinsides with women working throughout their childrens life these days, when compared to older times, huh?

You can't erase the natural instincts of nurture just because of female liberation - while I support this and I myself am with a girl who is very much a career professional, the moment children are involved, the thought should be "What is best for the child" - not "What is best for the parent"

[Torka]

funnily how it coinsides with women working throughout their childrens life these days

I'd argue just the opposite. It coincides with the rise of children being raised without fathers.

[Haydos]

Originally Posted by Torka

I'd argue just the opposite. It coincides with the rise of children being raised without fathers.

This is also an influence and a big one, but again - the mother can hardly stay home and nurture her child properly if she doesn't have the father to provide bread for her, no? Welfare can provide bread but it hardly gives the mother what she needs - the reassurance and companionship of a mate.

[Redneck]

Originally Posted by Haydos

There are of course exceptions to the rules but in my viewpoint and if I ever have a child, it will be with a mother who wants to spend the formulative years of her childs life, living at home with the child.

Please don't breed.

[Haydos]

Originally Posted by Redneck

Please don't breed.

Please don't breathe.

You've contributed nothing but cliche bullshit to this thread, largely because you lack the ability to think on a subject.. in short, you have the brain of a vegetable - please, go vegetate somewhere.

[Redneck]

"Women should stay at home"

"I'm not having kids with a working woman"

Got original?

[flic]

He's already admitted he's a troll
Why do you all keep feeding him?

[Redneck]

Really? I missed that