Entire US population to be screened for mental illness

[chiQ]

They should start with Bush.

[fobski]

PAGE 2 SNYPA

[Foggerty]

Originally Posted by seanfish

I know of teachers who prescribe autisim/adhd/you name it to hide their incompetence despite lack of qualification. Putting more power in these kinds of people's hands is a horrific recipe.

Eugh, yup, from personal experience that is just apalling

[Draco T Bastard]

Originally Posted by seanfish

Thank you for the article.

It does not indicate any psychological research was undertaken as to the prevalence of psychopathy in business. It indicates that some already convicted business criminals had psychopathic tendencies - thus it argued that a group of demonstrably "antisocial" people were antisocial. Quite circular in argument.

It used the already convicted business criminals as an argument for testing our possible business leaders for antisocial tendancies before they got the job.

This is a quote from one of the Herald articles you couldn't read - it's not the hard figures you seem to be looking for.

Originally Posted by http://www.nzherald.co.nz/search/story.cfm?storyid=7FBAA50E-39E3-11DA-8E1B-A5B353C55561

But according to Australian psychological profiler John Clarke, the majority of psychopaths are your colleagues, neighbours and the people you pass on the street.

"So I started looking into it further, and I’ve been into a whole range of companies now and psychopathy is the best clinical disorder to describe lots of these people."

So at the moment it does seem to be more of an awareness that this may be true but it's an awareness backed by evidence. Same as the awareness that most of the drivers of SUVs were male, middle aged, fat, arrogant businessmen. The research done later proved that most of the drivers of SUVs were male, middle aged, fat, arrogant businessmen.

The writer of the article, Alan Deutschman is a senior writer for http://www.fastcompany.com/ - which is a management e-magazine. He is a business journalist, not a psychological researcher.

A reporter reporting - who'd have thunk it?
I thought what he is reporting on was the issue. Who he was reporting on is also a good question.

Originally Posted by NZHerald

Hare knows his psychopaths better than just about anyone. Professor emeritus in psychology from the University of British Columbia, and author of Without Conscience: The disturbing world of the psychopaths among us, he has spent a long career peering into the cool darkness of their minds.

[PsyK]

For the record this is a useless idea because for a large amount of psychological illnesses ongoing person to person treatment is needed for improvement. Drugs do something, counselling etc do the rest.

If this has already been said, suck my dick

If you disagree, suck my dick

[caffiend]

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

So, I don't see much change between now and a few years ago. The World has changed for sure, and I guess I see the outlook as being just as positive now as I've ever known it.

Granted, the shift towards negativity might not be massive over a few years, but I still believe it's noticeable. But it's just a perception thing - you don't believe it's there, I believe it is. I've been looking but I can't find any worthwhile statistics to support this, so again, I guess we just agree to disagree.

The problem with the media is that it goes out of its way to find doom-and-gloom content since people loves this sort of stuff and thus will pay more to hear about it.

100% agreed on this. But as I alluded to in my previous post, regardless of the reporting accuracy, a vast number of people shape their opinion and outlook from what they watch, read and hear in the media, and believe it without question. Ergo, more potential for people to have a negative outlook.

Was I serious about you needing help? Well I was asking a question. From the little I've observe you have a very different outlook on things to me. I'm happy and you're not quite so perhaps sums it up. May be you've got to 95% of where you're going to get to and need some form of help to get the last inch? I dunno, hence my question.

In some ways I have no comprehension of your concept of a person being rated as 95%, or 50% or even 100%. What do you mean by 100%? 100% happy? Is there such a thing? And who sets the 100% benchmark? And how do you measure that? Sounds like a weird construct to me.

But you're probably right in that I've still got some work to do to become more of an "effective human being" (again, whatever that means). But I expect I always will. I don't think people can get to this mythical and enigmatic "100%". That's what living is all about. If you believe you're at "100%", then I believe you're deluded.

But I certainly know that the last "5%" is entirely down to me - and can't be provided by either medication or therapy.

[Trvln Nalzmn]

Thank god I only read one in every 10 threads I forget which one I'm in. The poverty thread and this go hand in hand. I don't think that the last 5 to 10 years things have changed much at all. It would be very hard to measure in my book and if I were to go on my own feelings it would be biased on how the last 5 to 10 years were for myself. Looking backwards you tend to think of the better times and push out the bad.

Fuck if I were to think how good or bad the last 5 to 10 years were it would be GREATLY influenced on how I was feeling RIGHT NOW.

[Golden Teapot]

Originally Posted by caffiend

What do you mean by 100%?

Your best estiamte of how close you are to the most fulfilling (for you) existance that you could ever acheive (defined in any way you like).

[DrTiTus]

Originally Posted by Trvln Nalzmn

I don't think that the last 5 to 10 years things have changed much at all.

The thing I've noticed most is that there seem to be more reports of stabbings and shootings in NZ than I can recall hearing about as a kid. Perhaps that would indicate that as a nation we have developed a drug problem? Either that, or we're more desensitised to violence. Or both.

[Trvln Nalzmn]

More reports or more stabings and shootings? Does it have anything at all to do with mental illness?

[caffiend]

Originally Posted by Trvln Nalzmn

More reports or more stabings and shootings? Does it have anything at all to do with mental illness?

While undoubtedly not the only cause, it more than likely has something to do with it.

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

Your best estiamte of how close you are to the most fulfilling (for you) existance that you could ever acheive (defined in any way you like).

So... a completely open and variable philosophy with no real parameters. Hmmm...

[Golden Teapot]

Originally Posted by caffiend

So... a completely open and variable philosophy with no real parameters. Hmmm...

No - you simply don't get it. I'm asking are you as good (call this "happy" if you like, or choose some other state that you want) as you could be now compared to if you recieved the best possible help. I don't care whether your potential puts you at 15% of normal or 115% of normal, and thus 100% is defined realtive to you.

If I identified and / or accepted a problem I had then I'd be after help to mitigate it. Who knows that that might involve? However, if the best help had as part of the overall plan that I needed to take medication then I'd be taking it. What I wouldn't be doing is following 75% of the overall treatment plan and then kidding myself that the rest didn't matter.

If I didn't get out of bed thinking life and the World was great basically every single day then I'd know it was time to find out what help I needed to get back to normal.

[caffiend]

So you believe getting "out of bed thinking life and the World [is] great basically every single day" is 'normal'?

[seanfish]

Originally Posted by Draco T Bastard

Various

Again, thanks for posting the extra stuff from the herald - is that a pay sub or can I just whore out one of my emails to their market database for the content?

I still have a problem with your original statment:

Originally Posted by Draco

wasn't there a study awhile back that suggested that most of the rich and powerful were psychopaths?

in that we seem in our discussion to have shifted from the rich and powerful to people generally in business, most of whom will only have relatively small levels of power and riches. So, once again we fall back on unconfirmed opinion, which is perfectly ok for what it's worth.

Also, in the context of the wider discussion; even if this is the case I can't exactly see Donald Trump having a problem of being diagnosed sociopathic and locked up for the good of society. The government may be easily able to push it's will onto disaffected urban communities, but someone with the financial resource Trump has could and would wage a hugely costly legal campaign any government programme simply couldn't afford, never mind the cost in alienating business voters.

[Torka]

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

If I didn't get out of bed thinking life and the World was great basically every single day then I'd know it was time to find out what help I needed to get back to normal.

Unhappiness is not a mental illness.

[Draco T Bastard]

Originally Posted by seanfish

Again, thanks for posting the extra stuff from the herald - is that a pay sub or can I just whore out one of my emails to their market database for the content?

Pay sub - about $100 per year or you can get a /day, month etc

I still have a problem with your original statment:
in that we seem in our discussion to have shifted from the rich and powerful to people generally in business, most of whom will only have relatively small levels of power and riches. So, once again we fall back on unconfirmed opinion, which is perfectly ok for what it's worth.

Fair enough.

Also, in the context of the wider discussion; even if this is the case I can't exactly see Donald Trump having a problem of being diagnosed sociopathic and locked up for the good of society. The government may be easily able to push it's will onto disaffected urban communities, but someone with the financial resource Trump has could and would wage a hugely costly legal campaign any government programme simply couldn't afford, never mind the cost in alienating business voters.

This was what I was refering to in my 'Ever notice how many exceptions to the rules there are?' comment.

[Golden Teapot]

Originally Posted by caffiend

So you believe getting "out of bed thinking life and the World [is] great basically every single day" is 'normal'?

This conversation is too dull for me.

[Golden Teapot]

Originally Posted by Torka

Unhappiness is not a mental illness.

You can substitute in any mental state for the words I've chosen. Try it and you'll see.

[caffiend]

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

This conversation is too dull for me.

Translation: I'm don't have enough conviction to really engage you on this.

What's wrong GT, get out of bed on the wrong side this morning? Oh no wait, that would be abnormal.

[sv]

"In small schools, students participated more, it meant more to them, they were more tolerant of others, they formed closer, more lasting relationships, were more effective in group processes, could communicate better, performed six times more in responsible positions, they were absent less often, were more dependable, tended to volunteer more often, were more productive, were more articulate, and found their work more meaningful. In other words, the small schools produced better citizens, who tended to be more satisfied with their lives and were more competent in every way.

What is easily missed in all this is that consolidations is not restricted to schools but found on all sides — particularly in business and government. Everything is getting bigger: automobiles, airplanes, buildings, and cities. We are living in an age of giants. Yet everything that is known about man’s needs points in the other directions. It is like a disease: since everyone has it, we think nothing of it. The problem, of course, is that vulnerability increases with size and it therefore becomes necessary…to “manage” the environment, which makes for great rigidity and suppression of the individual as well."

Beyond Culture, by Edward T. Hall

[seanfish]

Originally Posted by Draco_T_Bastard

This was what I was refering to in my 'Ever notice how many exceptions to the rules there are?' comment.

Oh, and absolutely I agree! I just don't need to categorise the rich and powerful as necessarily psychopathic/sociopathic to see that principle.

Ok well we seem to have reach the kind of dialectic resolution Marx would have liked to our discussion...

[seanfish]

Originally Posted by caffiend

Translation: I'm don't have enough conviction to really engage you on this.

What's wrong GT, get out of bed on the wrong side this morning? Oh no wait, that would be abnormal.

GT is right, it had turned into a long-volley style tennis match between you guys. No ace was forthcoming here.

[caffiend]

Originally Posted by seanfish

GT is right, it had turned into a long-volley style tennis match between you guys. No ace was forthcoming here.

So you mean it was a proper discussion. Something where we actively engaged each other in discourse with the purpose of exchanging viewpoints.

Wow, yeah, you're right. What was I thinking?

Sozza.

[seanfish]

Originally Posted by caffiend

So you mean it was a proper discussion. Something where we actively engaged each other in discourse with the purpose of exchanging viewpoints.

Wow, yeah, you're right. What was I thinking?

Sozza.

No, I mean you were just back and forth contradicting each other, neither providing argument that really dismissed the other's stance. It contributed nothing at all to the overall discussion at hand, just justified for each of you your own worldviews.

It might be that GT dropped out because he wasn't up to the discussion, or it may indeed be that he got bored. I can understand the latter reaction on his part.

[?>Superman]

lol

[caffiend]

I went back and read it, and you're pretty much right.

Oh well...