New Wellington Wind Farm

[Bent]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3301892a10,00.html

I really want to see this actually happen. The NIMBYs are already swinging into action with their FUD, but I hope that common sense wins this one. To have Wellington almost self sufficient for electricity is a choice idea, far more efficient than long hauling it up from the south island.

WTF is this quote all about:

"It will ruin a spectacular piece of land and the end result will be that Wellington will pay the price for Meridian's profits. Makara residents will pay the price because their property values will go down and this is just so Meridian can make more money."

South Wellington coast sure is rugged, but it's not exactly a scnenic spot in the same way that other parts of the country are. Personally I think wind turbines are awesome.

[Bent]

Also, someone needs to point out to them that if power companies don't make money, no one gets any electricity.

[Mos]

I would love to see these put in place, however it won't be the consumer saving money, it'll be the power company.

They will charge what they always charge.

Why do power companies charge a higher price on households that have gas hot water instead of power hot water?

Same will apply here, I mean if the wind farm could possibly power all of Wellington, then why not offer free power to all of Wellington?

Now if THAT happened, I'd be mind-blowingly amazed.

[Jodi]

Gah, nothing gets on my goat more than anti-windmill NIMBYs!

well, the stupidity of sheep gets me pretty riled, but this comes a close second.

1) Don't wan't windmills? FINE! HAVE A FUCKING NUCLEAR POWER PLANT INSTEAD. Dumb cock, where the fuck you think your electricity comes from? You think we can support more than 4million people with our current supply?

2) I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE HORSES, MOVE THEM TO ANOTHER FUCKING PADDOCK!

3) Have you SEEN windmills lining a ridge? Have you walked under windmills? I have, and windmills look both fucking cool, and very beautiful. Walking under them is fun, cos they are not noisy, and they are safe.

4) Just because your a fucking lifestyler who makes money sucking money as a lawer, and sipping your cocktails while overlooking your five Lalams in a paddock too big for them, doesn't mean you pull your strings to kill or swamp the project. Fuck off and die, society doesn't need you.

[Waldo]

i thought they actually added t the landscape lol....

may as well use that win wlg

[Mos]

Originally posted by Jodi
....

LOL

I liked point #4 the best

[VERT]

yeah I thinks its a good idea, so do these guys http://www.yes2wind.co.nz/

[Furry Crew]

Me all for it....if they don't like windmills....then a nice coal burning plant in makara might please them insteed

[Napalm]

Umm, everyone does realise that no wind = no power right?

There're downsides to all these wind farms too, you still have to have enough supply in the system to cope for when there's no wind, and then to cope with surges from too higher wind/surges etc.

Not that they don't have their benefits in other ways though.

I want to see how the wave generator they're about to put in in Australia turns out.

[Kryten]

I don't especially like them - they're an eyesore, they generate comparatively little power and all they really do is make people think they're doing better for the environment.

Now, solar panels on every house, there's a way to generate electricity in a much more effective manner, but of course the cabal won't allow that......

[Farmer Joe]

Originally posted by Napalm
Umm, everyone does realise that no wind = no power right?

You realise these are being put in Makara, Wellington right?

[Bent]

Originally posted by Kryten
I don't especially like them - they're an eyesore, they generate comparatively little power and all they really do is make people think they're doing better for the environment.

Now, solar panels on every house, there's a way to generate electricity in a much more effective manner, but of course the cabal won't allow that......

210MW 47% of the time sounds like a lot of power to me. The thing is, wind AND hydro are a very good combination, as long as there is always enough hydro to supply everyone's needs for those months where there is not much wind.

I'm doing my bit by taking adavantage of the Solar Scheme currently on offer by the EECA. I hope this is what you mean by solar panels, because $1000 per 80W of photovoltaic capacity is NOT a good investment.

And like Farmer Joe says, Makara is the place for wind.

[DrTiTus]

Originally posted by Mos
I mean if the wind farm could possibly power all of Wellington, then why not offer free power to all of Wellington?

Well that would make economic sense if all those who are Wellington residents, and will receive said power, paid for the turbines and ongoing maintenance...

However, if someone moves to Wellington, do they get free power? What if we move away after we've paid?

Owww my head.

Now user pays... theres an idea...

If you want free power, build your own power plant~

[BaM]

Originally posted by Farmer Joe
You realise these are being put in Makara, Wellington right?

Haha - last time I went to Makara I could hardly open the car door. Weird, spooky strong wind. Not gusty like normal wind, but a constant high velocity trying to push you over.

As for all the NIMBYs, I support them on one aspect of wind turbines: noise. Apparently they're awful to live near because of the constant thudding of the blades. Fuck that.

I think they look cool though.

[Bent]

Originally posted by Mos
I would love to see these put in place, however it won't be the consumer saving money, it'll be the power company.

They will charge what they always charge.

Why do power companies charge a higher price on households that have gas hot water instead of power hot water?

Same will apply here, I mean if the wind farm could possibly power all of Wellington, then why not offer free power to all of Wellington?

Now if THAT happened, I'd be mind-blowingly amazed.

You're missing the fact that this is costing $380,000,000 to build. Where do you think this money is coming from? This is not about saving the consumer money, it's about keeping New Zealanders in the manor to which they have become accustomed and then some. We ARE running out of electricity production capacity, this is why we need to build these things, unless you can think of some large valley somewhere that would be ok to fill with water for yet another hydro project.

[MadLep]

Oil explorer and 30-year Makara resident Dave Bennett said "a rugged and wild landscape will be converted into a semi-industrial site".

Jeez, that's fucking rich coming from someone in an industry based on "converting wild landscapes into semi-industrial sites".

[Bent]

Originally posted by BaM
Haha - last time I went to Makara I could hardly open the car door. Weird, spooky strong wind. Not gusty like normal wind, but a constant high velocity trying to push you over.

As for all the NIMBYs, I support them on one aspect of wind turbines: noise. Apparently they're awful to live near because of the constant thudding of the blades. Fuck that.

I think they look cool though.

There will be no houses within 750m of the turbines. 2 houses between 750 and 2Km away. And this is beside the point. New turbines do not make the thudding noise because the shaft has been made aerodynamic. The do whir a bit though.

[Boofhead]

Originally posted by Bent
it's about keeping New Zealanders in the manor to which they have become accustomed and then some.

to which manor have we become accustomed?

[MadLep]

Originally posted by Boofhead
to which manor have we become accustomed?

Hot water, light, cooked food, intarweb

[Simon]

Originally posted by Jodi
stuff

Couldn't have said it better. Except maybe through use of the label "fucking NIMBY lifestyle-block cunts".

[Axident]

The noise was a problem on older turbines where the tips of blades moved fast enough to make a sound. The new turbines have blades shaped so they don't do that. Also, the new turbines are huge things and the blades turn slower, producing less noise. If you're standing right underneath them you will hear the blades, but you can easily carry on a normal conversation.

The rubbish that they scare animals is just that: rubbish. There're plenty of shots of the Te Apiti (sp) farm with sheep grazing right below the turbines. As for bird strike, the turbine beside the Karori bird sanctuary has never had a hit. They point out that cats, tall buildings and traffic are greater threats.

I did a lot of work for the launch presentation and some of the facts in there were quite interesting. It was also quite clear that Meridian was doing a genuine job of taking the community's interests into account. They haven't tried for anything like the number of turbines they could put up in the available land and those that are there are not in optimal positions in order to keep them out of line of sight of residences and popular sites.

[yaksman]

I don't really mind but then again who am I? The power *doesn't* go into the Wellington homes that they use to make up pretty statistics, it gets sucked into the National Grid for those dirty Aucklanders to use.

If power prices go down as a result of this then I am more for it. Otherwise I'll sit on my fence.

[OoKiE]

I like the wind farm idea simply from sh#t happens point of view. When it totally falls to bits what happens?

Wind Farm: A few sheep and maybe a few onlookers get killed. - Not too bad. No power for a bit and a bit of a mess to clean up.

Nuc Power: Anything within a big radius dies. No power, not that anyone will care as the are a few more major concerns. A mess that can't be cleaned up for how long?

[chiquelet]

These things have to go in somebody's "back yard" but it seems that this wind farm is going to disturb comparatively little residents. This is good. It sure blows for the couple of people who'll be living within the 2ks somebody said, but really, this is a pretty good trade off.

Makara resident on 3News said last night that it would be within 400meters of peoples' home. I find that hard to believe.

Did you see the diameter from blade to blade? It's the same as rotating a plane (was it a 767 or a 747)? Anyway, freaking HUGE compared to the one up in Brooklyn.

Oh and I read somewhere authoritative that wind farms kill loads of birds every year.

We should just go nuclear instead.

[Mos]

Originally posted by Bent
You're missing the fact that this is costing $380,000,000 to build. Where do you think this money is coming from? This is not about saving the consumer money, it's about keeping New Zealanders in the manor to which they have become accustomed and then some. We ARE running out of electricity production capacity, this is why we need to build these things, unless you can think of some large valley somewhere that would be ok to fill with water for yet another hydro project.

Valid point, I had forgotten the cost of getting them there.

I'd just like to see us move towards cheaper power bills rather than power companies making more profit and the consumer stuck with a monthly power bill that never seems to go down, no matter what happens.

If this wind farm goes in, will the consumer ever see a reduction in their monthly power bill??

Previous experience says no.

[Jodi]

Originally posted by Napalm
Umm, everyone does realise that no wind = no power right?

Heh, I have just read both the pro and con websites for windpower, and your statement is one of the number of myths of windpower.

-Yes, no power is generated when there is no wind / too much wind for turbines
-Yes pro websites make misleading claims on power output of wind turbines. Best is to get its max output, and multiply it by 30% to get its average output (50% for wellington :-)
-However that is the same for all power generation. Thats why we have a national grid. This balances demand with available supply.

Seriously read the pro-wind website
http://www.yes2wind.co.nz/
and the anti-wind website
http://www.makaraguardians.orcon.net.nz/

and THEN make statments.

[Jodi]

Originally posted by Mos
Valid point, I had forgotten the cost of getting them there.

I'd just like to see us move towards cheaper power bills rather than power companies making more profit and the consumer stuck with a monthly power bill that never seems to go down, no matter what happens.

If this wind farm goes in, will the consumer ever see a reduction in their monthly power bill??

Previous experience says no.

I have no qualms about power companies making money.

Of course our power bill won't change, however we will be able to build 2000 more houses / month, and not experience brown outs either (number pulled out of arse).

[Fred]

Yeah, I really can't see what the Makara people are complaining about. The worst aspect is the EM the turbines put out which can interfere with radio and TV reception.

Upside is we get a gobsmackingly large windfarm, within easy distance of a major city providing Wellington with a measure more power supply redundancy and a tourist attraction. As the Brooklyn Windmill has proved the turbines work extremely well with the fairly constant and strong winds that region gets.

Near as I can see this is a win win proposition for pretty much everyone concerned.

[TnT]

Originally posted by Simon
Couldn't have said it better. Except maybe through use of the label "fucking NIMBY lifestyle-block cunts".

And maybe spelling llamas correctly, unless of course Lalams are an animal of some description

[Jodi]

Originally posted by chiquelet
Makara resident on 3News said last night that it would be within 400meters of peoples' home. I find that hard to believe.

Not really. In Kings Langley where I worked in the UK, there was a turbine about 200 meters from the train station, in the burbs. I never actually heard or noticed it until we went to a different pub on friday and walked past it.

Originally posted by chiquelet
Oh and I read somewhere authoritative that wind farms kill loads of birds every year.

True, but false at the same time:

http://www.yes2wind.co.nz/birds.php
The 9 harbour-wall turbines at Blyth in the UK are in a busy bird area. Of the bird flights through the wind farm, only 1 in 10,000 have resulted in a collision. This translates to 1-2 collisions per year per turbine. To put the issue into perspective, in the UK every year more than 10 million birds are killed by cars and 55 million by domestic cats.(1) The Exxon Valdez oil spill alone is estimated to have killed up to 500,000 birds.

[Jodi]

Originally posted by TnT
And maybe spelling llamas correctly, unless of course Lalams are an animal of some description

Yea, I coundn't edit my post when I noticed the typo.

[fidgit]

Fuck Makara, the place is a shithole. They're all inbred hicks*. I look forward to challenging the inevitable "Save Our National Herritage** Site" fucks that set up shop in Karori mall to annoy people into signing their petition to stop the wind farm, as to how they'd rather have the power generated.

Anyone opposing this has lost sight of the fact that Makara is an eye sore populated by (most importantly) people I don't like.


In conclusion:

Windfarm = Good.
Makaraites = Bad.


* While this might appear to be slander, this is what I was told by someone that used to live in Makara, and, because she wasn't an inbred hick, moved away.

** It's not, but they'd really, really like it to be.

[Draco T Bastard]

Originally posted by Bent
210MW 47% of the time sounds like a lot of power to me. The thing is, wind AND hydro are a very good combination, as long as there is always enough hydro to supply everyone's needs for those months where there is not much wind.

I'm doing my bit by taking adavantage of the Solar Scheme currently on offer by the EECA. I hope this is what you mean by solar panels, because $1000 per 80W of photovoltaic capacity is NOT a good investment.

And like Farmer Joe says, Makara is the place for wind.

I suggest buying Sharp instead of BP
DSE

Estimates are that it costs about $10k to make a home fully independant from the grid using solar alone (silly idea - I'd use wind and solar) but as it would last about 20+ years with a good maintenance regime it seems like a reasonably good idea to me.

[Wilmington]

Originally posted by Bent
unless you can think of some large valley somewhere that would be ok to fill with water for yet another hydro project.

Jesus Bent, you live in Wellington..... what the hell is wrong with the Hutt?

[DrTiTus]

I wouldn't mind living near some windmills (cheap farm, woo hoo!)

The windmills would be more likely to complain about MY noise...

[Draco T Bastard]

Originally posted by Mos
Valid point, I had forgotten the cost of getting them there.

I'd just like to see us move towards cheaper power bills rather than power companies making more profit and the consumer stuck with a monthly power bill that never seems to go down, no matter what happens.

If this wind farm goes in, will the consumer ever see a reduction in their monthly power bill??

Previous experience says no.

And everyone thought I was the only communist on this board

[Draco T Bastard]

Originally posted by Jodi
I have no qualms about power companies making money.

I'm sorry, but you have that wrong - only banks are allowed to make money.

[MadLep]

I'm all for building a dam in the Hutt Valley and flooding it

[Jodi]

Originally posted by Bent
I'm doing my bit by taking adavantage of the Solar Scheme currently on offer by the EECA. I hope this is what you mean by solar panels, because $1000 per 80W of photovoltaic capacity is NOT a good investment.

Got to be in quick, this scheme ends ON THE 30th of JUNE!

[Bent]

Originally posted by Draco T Bastard
I suggest buying Sharp instead of BP
DSE

Estimates are that it costs about $10k to make a home fully independant from the grid using solar alone (silly idea - I'd use wind and solar) but as it would last about 20+ years with a good maintenance regime it seems like a reasonably good idea to me.

Ok, $900 per 80W. $10,000 would give you about 500W give or take a few. That's not that much, you certainly wouldn't be able to use an electric oven. Still, I would love to put some up on the roof of my house.

It's hard to make wind work well without bloody tall towers to put the turbine on, which is not easy in suburbia.