The God Delusion

[seanfish]

Originally Posted by Simon

You die, you rot, you're worm food. Why is this so hard for people to accept?

I'm planning to pop up at the respawn point and win the frag count.

[seanfish]

Originally Posted by ilk

Arrogance. They think they are special enough for there to be an inherent meaning behind their life.

Not me. I simply believe in a self or soul in terms of fractally manifested levels of self-awareness through recursive evaluation of life exper...

Oh wait, I see what you did there.

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Simon

You die, you rot, you're worm food. Why is this so hard for people to accept?

Personally "me" isn't such a big deal. It's what THIS is that I'm compelled to know. Of course from my perspective "me" is a pretty big part of THIS, but whether I'm here or not is not really relevant. Dead or alive time still passes. Or not.

[cEvin]

can't get this book in auckland yet D:

[seanfish]

you got book problems, you should know where to come by now.

this nigga's got his fingers on the bibliographic piz-ULSE

[CCS]

H-ville Town Library reprazizzle.

[Know me.]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

There was an interesting NS article awhile about written about a guy who seems to believe that self is as much of an illusion as some people think God is an illusion.

I'll hafta have a dig around for it.

My old self watched a very interesting documentary called "century of the self". It popped up in another thread a while back.

This man summed it up very nicely.

A human being is a part of a whole, called by us 'universe', a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.

Albert Einstein

A human being is a part of a whole, called by us 'universe', a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.

[Know me.]

Lightspeed I'd very interested to know what you think Jesus would say if he were alive today and you could have a very short conversation with him.

[Know me.]

Originally Posted by Know me.

What I think he would say is. I am your brother.

and no I have not found religion and the verdict is still out for me as to if god exists. I think along Mabd's lines about god and religion. Over the last two thousand years religion has distorted in any way that suited its needs at the time a few simple truths that Jesus stood for.

Satan, heaven and hell in an after life are illogical to me but I will say this if you live your life to avoid going to heaven then you are living in hell.

That was to avoid going to hell I mean.

[[WanG] Wandarah]

The quarter life crisis is a lol thing.

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Know me.

Lightspeed I'd very interested to know what you think Jesus would say if he were alive today and you could have a very short conversation with him.

He is alive today.

My relationship with Christ is a personal relationship. What he speaks to me is about me and not of any real relevance to anyone else I don't think.

If you want to know what Christ has to say, there are two places you can look. The Bible and your heart.

[Know me.]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

He is alive today.

My relationship with Christ is a personal relationship. What he speaks to me is about me and not of any real relevance to anyone else I don't think.

If you want to know what Christ has to say, there are two places you can look. The Bible and your heart.

I think there is very little of what he said in the bible. The fundy in the first part of the doco said "love your neighbour as yourself" if it saids that in the bible they should rip that page out and bin the rest then actually live it. There weren't too many black faces in the crowd at the church and I hope he spends every minute of his weekly phone call with predident Bush urging him to get out of Iraq because they are his neighbours.

[Whiplash]

http://www.dailyhappypill.com/funny_..._guy_jesus.htm

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Whiplash

http://www.dailyhappypill.com/funny_..._guy_jesus.htm

All I see is some chick with her titties bouncing around.

[Trigger]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

If you want to know what Christ has to say, there are two places you can look. The Bible and your heart.

holy lol

[Lightspeed]

It's.... funny a Christian believing in God stuff?

[CCS]

Pretty much, when you phrase it like you did.

Heart? Isn't that a power one of the kids had in Captain Planet?

[Lightspeed]

I guess so. I suppose I should recognize the Christian concept of a person's heart is not universally understood.

[Trigger]

So there's the Christian conscience and the Christian heart, I'm wondering when you'll get your own Christian internet with brainwash powered tubes

[Lightspeed]

You'll find many groups, clubs, organizations, areas of thought, fields of expertise use words is ways that relate specifically to their thing, with a meaning differing ( but usually relating to ) the dictionary meaning of the word.

[seanfish]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

You'll find many groups, clubs, organizations, areas of thought, fields of expertise use words is ways that relate specifically to their thing, with a meaning differing ( but usually relating to ) the dictionary meaning of the word.

He's got you there.

The filthy god botherer.

[CCS]

Excuse me sir, I have a question.


What about the Christian Penis? What about my two tanks of Christian Jizz?

[Trigger]

The Christian Penis has the magical property of impregnation without penetration and +20 mana. Unfortunately this doesn't leave much room for fun, just babies, lots of babies.

[Lightspeed]

I'm not familiar with that definition, however to me penis refers to the thing that slaps against my balls when I walk. I wear boxers y'see.

[Cinclant]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

[Simon]

Originally Posted by CCS

Pretty much, when you phrase it like you did.

Heart? Isn't that a power one of the kids had in Captain Planet?

Nah dude, it was the Care Bears first.

[cEvin]

guys, i couldn't find this book at all. but i did stumble across this other great read - i found it in the side drawer of a hotel room i was staying in. i guess someone left it there.



i'll try to track down the author when i have time.

[Know me.]

I've watched the first two episodes and they are very good. He did put me off slightly within the first few minutes when he said people believing in god belittles the elegant reality of the universe. That came across as arogant and the american minister called him on that attitude later on in the documentary. Richard has a long long way to go to change things but he has started which says the most. Its prity scary that people are afraid to speak out against faith. I am commited to helping him however but I'm afraid that science can not replace religion. How do you replace the concept of "love your neighbour" with science?

Watch this or read the text of the speech. Its a speech given by Ronald Reagan to the evangelical church in the states. This man was the leader of the "free" world at the time. This is how Bush thinks.

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/spee...evilempire.htm

[samael]

Originally Posted by Know me.

I am commited to helping him however but I'm afraid that science can not replace religion. How do you replace the concept of "love your neighbour" with science?

Don't be afraid. Read "the selfish gene", it explains how to replace "love you neighbour" with science.

[sv]

not to sound arrogant, but i think you're attempting to replace religion with science, you don't have a great understanding of either.

[seanfish]

Originally Posted by sv

not to sound arrogant, but i think you're attempting to replace religion with science, you don't have a great understanding of either.

not do be disagreeable for it's own sake, but I think Dawkin's discussion of memetics does provide an explanation for such concepts as "altruism" and "community" being propagated as a survival trait albeit not on a genetic level obviously.

I don't personally know whether Samael knows what he's talking about or not but given that he's not proposing his own theory but pointing to a more qualified authority it's pretty much beside the point isn't it? Unless Samael's trying to win teh intarweb single handed...

[Know me.]

Originally Posted by sv

not to sound arrogant, but i think you're attempting to replace religion with science, you don't have a great understanding of either.

I'm not trying to replace science with religion, thats why I asked the question. And just because I asked the question does not mean I don't have an answer, in fact I have already given you my answer.

I would say I'd have a MUCH better understanding of science and religion than average.

[Know me.]

Originally Posted by samael

Don't be afraid. Read "the selfish gene", it explains how to replace "love you neighbour" with science.

I've read the Wikipedia article on the selfish gene and I will add the book to the long list I now have of books to read incidentally the current book I'm reading is Martin Luther Kings autobiography which is very relevant to the thread. I understand the process of natural selection and fail to see how the selfish gene directly shows humanity the way forward. Indirectly I see a lot there.

[samael]

Originally Posted by seanfish

not do be disagreeable for it's own sake, but I think Dawkin's discussion of memetics does provide an explanation for such concepts as "altruism" and "community" being propagated as a survival trait albeit not on a genetic level obviously.

He does a pretty good job of describing the concepts of altruism and community on a genetic level as well - the game theory section describes these ideas

Originally Posted by seanfish

I don't personally know whether Samael knows what he's talking about or not but given that he's not proposing his own theory but pointing to a more qualified authority it's pretty much beside the point isn't it? Unless Samael's trying to win teh intarweb single handed...

Oh, I have my own theorys. Dawkins can describe them in a much more eloquent way, his writings have given me direction - and solidified a lot of my thinking.

Win the internet single handedly? Hahahaha I am no where brainy enough, nor persistant enough for that

[samael]

Originally Posted by sv

not to sound arrogant, but i think you're attempting to replace religion with science, you don't have a great understanding of either.

Well I know this may sound arrogant, but I am going to say it anyway. There is not much substance to religion to replace - its a shallow grave of dead ideas that its practitioners insist are still alive.

Maybe I am just swinging to the opposite extreme (raised christian, like many of us), and I am happy with the idea that my feelings will change with time. I don't mind being right at the expense of earlier wrongs - pride is a hinderance sometimes, and I try to avoid it. I suppose this is one thing that both science and a lot of religions agree upon

[Know me.]

Originally Posted by Know me.

I'm not trying to replace science with religion, thats why I asked the question. And just because I asked the question does not mean I don't have an answer, in fact I have already given you my answer.

I would say I'd have a MUCH better understanding of science and religion than average.

opps brain fade i read both replies as one.

[samael]

Originally Posted by Know me.

I've read the Wikipedia article on the selfish gene and I will add the book to the long list I now have of books to read incidentally the current book I'm reading is Martin Luther Kings autobiography which is very relevant to the thread. I understand the process of natural selection and fail to see how the selfish gene directly shows humanity the way forward. Indirectly I see a lot there.

You should also read this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_%28linguistics%29

Joking aside, can you describe how Martin Luther Kings is relevant to this thread?

The selfish gene theory doesnt directly, or indirectly for that matter, show humanity the way forward. There is no "way forward".

[Know me.]

Originally Posted by samael

You should also read this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_%28linguistics%29

Joking aside, can you describe how Martin Luther Kings is relevant to this thread?

The selfish gene theory doesnt directly, or indirectly for that matter, show humanity the way forward. There is no "way forward".

On two levels, one minor the fact that he was a church leader the other is that he understood that community meant the whole world and all races and he just didn't talk about it like many other leaders he actually lived his life along those lines.

When I said way forward I meant a direction and not just the passing of time. What world would you like to live in if religion didn't exist?

[Simon]

I'd kinda like to live in THIS one without religion, thanks very much.

[samael]

Originally Posted by Know me.

On two levels, one minor the fact that he was a church leader the other is that he understood that community meant the whole world and all races and he just didn't talk about it like many other leaders he actually lived his life along those lines.

When I said way forward I meant a direction and not just the passing of time. What world would you like to live in if religion didn't exist?

I am really sorry, but I am having a hard time understanding your posts. Is english your first language? Again, no offence The whole first paragraph is lost on me.

What world would I like to live in if religion didn't exist? Well, that one I would like to live in a world in which religion didn't exist. A caveat to my answer is that I would never attempt to ban religion, in fact I don't think I would allow it to happen either. I would actively oppose any attempt to ban it. I hate that I have to include that caveat.

When I said that there is no "way forward", i wasn't talking about the passing of time either. I was talking about the direction