Evolution - Page 4

armourking · 29th October 2003, 16:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Lightspeed
I'm not bagging the scientific method ( although I certainly don't believe it's absolute ), I'm just saying that's there's more out there that can be described by the method.

It doesn't describe anything. It is a method of validation to stop humans being stupid and believing what ever makes them feel good, such as religion, by rigorous testing of theory and re-evaluation of old theory in light of new data. (Unlike religion, where things are Right, and that's that.)

I really wish 'science' taught in schools actually taught science, not just remembering facts, because it is very useful.
Sure, situations arise in which you cannot apply the Method, but for the most part it is, when followed, an excellent way of removing your bias.

For a good overview of the Method, visit: http://teacher.nsrl.rochester.edu/ph...AppendixE.html

Edit: Hmm, that page seems to overlook peer-review (There isn't such a thing a single scientist. You need at least two people to count as a scientist) as part of the Method. Tsk.

herp · 29th October 2003, 16:46

Well there's certainly no evolution in these threads. They always end up the fucking same way! Everyone goes to great lengths proving lightspeed / pk wrong, then when they ask lightspeed / pk questions, they completely ignore them, making the person who asked them completely frustrated.

Why don't you just all rip your hair out now and save yourself the waste of time that these religion / evolution threads always become.

AycorzFewdz · 29th October 2003, 20:05

Oh please, now you're going to say i posted it purely to cause people to argue and rark up!

Cookie · 29th October 2003, 20:09

Quote:

Originally posted by AycorzFewdz
Oh please, now you're going to say i posted it purely to cause people to argue and rark up!

AAHAHAHA!

Lightspeed · 31st October 2003, 00:23

Why is there something instead of nothing?

AycorzFewdz · 31st October 2003, 00:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Cookie
AAHAHAHA!

I knew someone would catch on, but i certinaly didn't think it would be this retard.

Lightspeed: Yeah man.

Niko · 31st October 2003, 01:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Lightspeed
Why is there something instead of nothing?

Why would a perfect god create a universe?

curses · 31st October 2003, 01:27

could anything have happened any other way that it has?

the universe is just a big domino set which was set off at the big bang and the laws of physics determine how it goes, how it has gone, and how it will keep going

in that case, is there free will? and do we really control our own lives if we're just controlled by the laws of physics...

Nine_of_Hearts · 31st October 2003, 01:33

Quote:

Originally posted by curses
could anything have happened any other way that it has?

the universe is just a big domino set which was set off at the big bang and the laws of physics determine how it goes, how it has gone, and how it will keep going

in that case, is there free will? and do we really control our own lives if we're just controlled by the laws of physics...

Hehe, I thought about thins in a discussion about Chaos theory.
Um, I'd say that there are many compeling argument for both sides. The one that got me was: "Would these laws allow ourselves to believe in free will in the first place?"

curses · 31st October 2003, 01:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Nine_of_Hearts
The one that got me was: "Would these laws allow ourselves to believe in free will in the first place?"

sure why not? the laws allow all kinds of thoughts, why not ones against their existence? they're all a product of the initial conditions...

similar argument about god...

doubt...faith...temptation...bill hicks...

Lightspeed · 31st October 2003, 01:44

Quote:

Originally posted by curses
could anything have happened any other way that it has?

the universe is just a big domino set which was set off at the big bang and the laws of physics determine how it goes, how it has gone, and how it will keep going

in that case, is there free will? and do we really control our own lives if we're just controlled by the laws of physics...

Who pushed the first domino?

Cookie · 31st October 2003, 01:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Lightspeed
Who pushed the first domino?

No one. We're all an accident. The end.

I hate this kind of thinking... makes your brain want to walk out and leave...

AycorzFewdz · 31st October 2003, 02:00

Your brain seems to walk out and leave everytime you post.

Cookie · 31st October 2003, 02:06

Quote:

Originally posted by AycorzFewdz
Your brain seems to walk out and leave everytime you post.

You sure are familiar with the bandwagon for a new poster.

AycorzFewdz · 31st October 2003, 02:25

Look at the first post you made on my thread, what were you expecting, flowers?.
Fucking bimbo.

SpaceCowboy · 31st October 2003, 09:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Lightspeed
Who pushed the first domino?

look, dont want to be stereotypical man, but this is a typical christian question. the answer could be god, yes, but it could also be that there was no time before the big bang, and that in the very first instant of time, the universe (perfect, 10-dimensional, and filled with nothing but superstrings) was highly unstable and spontaneously broke down into the familiar 4-dimensions you experiance daily, with the extra 6 dimensions shrunken down to a distance thats not even detectable. (probably sounds extraordinary, but this is the current theory.), thereby producing the big bang.

when you press your track-back button on your discman, it returns to the beginning of the current track and plays it instantly right? think of time like that. maybe somewhere in the future we will reach a point where the cosmos will be in just the right state to press its rewind button, and play the track again.

xor · 31st October 2003, 10:00

armourking · 31st October 2003, 10:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Lightspeed
Who pushed the first domino?

You can apply the same challenge to creationism - who created Gods, if Gods created everything?

Cinclant · 31st October 2003, 10:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Lightspeed
Who pushed the first domino?

How silly of us.

The universe was created so we could all gather round on the weekend in a ramshackle scout hall or prefab building with stained and worn carpet listening to long-haired youths with too-large smiles sing away while we jump up and down in the aisles shouting "hallelujah" and "praise the lordddahh" in a self-induced state of ecstacy (endorphins for you every-day sinners) getting more and more wound up by the overawing sense of expectation and a desperate need for *something* to happen and then jibber-jabbering away in a language that conveniently is different for every person that speaks it.

Sorry. Forgot for a second.

ZoSo · 31st October 2003, 10:55

Let us pray the truth will be revealed to us.

TnT · 31st October 2003, 11:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Lightspeed
Who pushed the first domino?

Three letters. L. S. D

Lightspeed · 31st October 2003, 12:45

Quote:

Originally posted by armourking
You can apply the same challenge to creationism - who created Gods, if Gods created everything?

This isn't really about creationism or evolution so much as it is about in either situation, the whole existance thing is so freaking far fetched.

I mean, people love their hate-religion band wagon ( although it's usually only one religion in particular ), but when it comes down to it, the whole "How can God be uncreated" is as inconceivable as how eternity started.
I mean, if time started as we know it or in a way beyond us, "when" did time start and what caused that to start? And what caused that to start?

There is no desperate need for something to happen. Are you blind? Look around you. It's happening everywhere!

What body produced chemical is it that gives a person something far better then esctasy, Cinclant, that thing being peace?

curses · 31st October 2003, 13:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Lightspeed
I mean, if time started as we know it or in a way beyond us, "when" did time start and what caused that to start? And what caused that to start?

oh

time started at the instant of the big bang... quite a simple answer to that question...

there is no other "time" way beyond us, it's a physical dimension just like length, height and width...

though, saying that, if our universe is just a 4 dimensional 'brane' floating in a higher dimensional super-universe then there could be a time external to our time... but i am unsure of that... (hm interesting though experiment, is our time the same as super-time or is super-time on top of ours and independent of it?)

what caused it to start is the more interesting question because nobody knows, that's cosmology, that is (-:

Cinclant · 31st October 2003, 13:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Lightspeed
What body produced chemical is it that gives a person something far better then esctasy, Cinclant, that thing being peace?

A sound mind? What is our body but an endless tune of chemical reactions anyway.

A pity the prerequisite for most penecostlols is either a fucked mind or a brainwashed mind.

SpaceCowboy · 31st October 2003, 13:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Lightspeed
I mean, if time started as we know it or in a way beyond us, "when" did time start and what caused that to start? And what caused that to start?

well, here i have to stop you. this question doesnt make sense. there is NO time before time, therefore you cant rely on "when". time simply becomes real at the first instant of time. nothing caused it, it just simply started. it was a consequence of spacetime breaking symmetry. my personal theory is that amoung the 6 shrunken dimensions of spacetime, is one of antitime, and the "layering" of time upon antitime produced a net overall "no-time" - hence, the universe breaking symmetry made time dominate over anti-time, and 15 billion years and millions of light years later, here we are discussing it.

its interesting to think what would be if anti-time had dominated over time. we might call them the opposite, so that current time is anti-time, and current anti-time is time.

and what would the universe have done: time travel in the reverse direction, so that it lived forever as a singularity? speculation

curses · 31st October 2003, 13:48

Quote:

Originally posted by SpaceCowboy
its interesting to think what would be if anti-time had dominated over time. we might call them the opposite, so that current time is anti-time, and current anti-time is time.

and what would the universe have done: time travel in the reverse direction, so that it lived forever as a singularity? speculation

it would've been like anti-matter, if anti time had ruled we'd be here the same but then what we call time would be anti-time, and possibly what we call matter = anti-matter...

or, it could've big banged in the opposite direction (think of time as the x axis and volume as the y axis) and had a regular matter universe with anti-time.

you said yourself there's no time before the BB so what difference is forever to a singularity with no time...

maybe there could have been false starts when the universe began but at the uncoupling of the supersymmetry backwards time ruled and it went back to a singularity...

either way it has no relevence on our universe IMO

Uncle Gus · 31st October 2003, 15:21

Man, every time I open this thread, all I hear is "WAHP WAHP WAHP."

Cinclant · 31st October 2003, 15:24

This thread needs more anti-"WAHP WAHP WAHP." obviously.

TnT · 31st October 2003, 15:24

That's God beating you around the ears with the clue stick

curses · 31st October 2003, 17:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Uncle Gus
Man, every time I open this thread, all I hear is "WAHP WAHP WAHP."

you mean like amidala's blaster on episode 1?

Uncle Gus · 31st October 2003, 19:24

Nah, like the kind of "wahp" noise that you make while simultaneously opening and closing your hand like a mouth, in mockery of the person(s) speaking.

hypnotoad · 31st October 2003, 19:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Lightspeed
I mean, people love their hate-religion band wagon

Uhh who here hates religion ?

You dont have to hate religion to point out how horribly flawed it is.

Cyberbob · 31st October 2003, 19:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Uncle Gus
Nah, like the kind of "wahp" noise that you make while simultaneously opening and closing your hand like a mouth, in mockery of the person(s) speaking.

commonly referred to as "blablabla"

Lightspeed · 1st November 2003, 00:06

Quote:

Originally posted by SpaceCowboy
time simply becomes real at the first instant of time. nothing caused it, it just simply started. it was a consequence of spacetime breaking symmetry. my personal theory is that amoung the 6 shrunken dimensions of spacetime, is one of antitime, and the "layering" of time upon antitime produced a net overall "no-time" - hence, the universe breaking symmetry made time dominate over anti-time, and 15 billion years and millions of light years later, here we are discussing it.

its interesting to think what would be if anti-time had dominated over time. we might call them the opposite, so that current time is anti-time, and current anti-time is time.

and what would the universe have done: time travel in the reverse direction, so that it lived forever as a singularity? speculation

It seems all very non-intuitive to me. Nothing causing something to happen? Although stating the universe breaking symmetry seems like something to me, but it seems to me that you're saying that nothing caused that, it happened "just because".
This doesn't seem to be in line with causality.

Talking about "super-time" being on top of time... what's on top of super-time and what's on top of that?

My point is, the way a lot of people ( who bother thinking about it ) think the universe came into being is just as non-understandable as something that is uncreated.

armourking · 1st November 2003, 00:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Lightspeed
Talking about "super-time" being on top of time... what's on top of super-time and what's on top of that?

It's turtles all the way down.

Phleep · 1st November 2003, 09:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Lightspeed
It seems all very non-intuitive to me. Nothing causing something to happen? Although stating the universe breaking symmetry seems like something to me, but it seems to me that you're saying that nothing caused that, it happened "just because".
This doesn't seem to be in line with causality.

Talking about "super-time" being on top of time... what's on top of super-time and what's on top of that?

My point is, the way a lot of people ( who bother thinking about it ) think the universe came into being is just as non-understandable as something that is uncreated.

Causality occurs within time. Without time it doesn't apply.

There wouldn't be just a big void before the start of time as there wouldn't have been time for there to be a big void. So don't think there is required to be a deity to fill the void and start the universe as there would not have been time for the deity to start the universe until had already been started.

Torka · 1st November 2003, 09:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Lightspeed
It seems all very non-intuitive to me.

Oh yeah. And if there's one thing science has taught us, it's that human intuition gives us alllll the answers.

Rince · 1st November 2003, 11:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Lightspeed
It seems all very non-intuitive to me.

doesn't make it wrong though

curses · 1st November 2003, 11:28

Quote:

Originally posted by armourking
It's turtles all the way down.

SpaceCowboy · 1st November 2003, 11:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Lightspeed
It seems all very non-intuitive to me. Nothing causing something to happen? Although stating the universe breaking symmetry seems like something to me, but it seems to me that you're saying that nothing caused that, it happened "just because".
This doesn't seem to be in line with causality.

youre use of the word "happened" is out of context when we are discussing a state of no-time. when there is time, stuff happens right? in this case, when there is time, symmetry breaks. in a state of no-time, nothing "happens", because "happen" isnt defined.

Quote:

Originally posted by Lightspeed
Talking about "super-time" being on top of time... what's on top of super-time and what's on top of that?

whats super-time? O_o i didnt mention any super-time

Quote:

My point is, the way a lot of people ( who bother thinking about it ) think the universe came into being is just as non-understandable as something that is uncreated.

i agree. people have there opinions, i dont want to fuck with them. im just stating my view. i dont like the attitude a lot of people here are taking towards your views. come on guys, tolerance. but as for you lightspeed, be aware that when you try to tell others that they are wrong, you will get burnt.

29th October 2003, 16:46	#122
herp	Well there's certainly no evolution in these threads. They always end up the fucking same way! Everyone goes to great lengths proving lightspeed / pk wrong, then when they ask lightspeed / pk questions, they completely ignore them, making the person who asked them completely frustrated. Why don't you just all rip your hair out now and save yourself the waste of time that these religion / evolution threads always become. Last edited by herp : 29th October 2003 at 16:47.

29th October 2003, 20:05	#123
AycorzFewdz	Oh please, now you're going to say i posted it purely to cause people to argue and rark up!

31st October 2003, 00:23	#125
Lightspeed	Why is there something instead of nothing?

31st October 2003, 01:27	#128
curses	could anything have happened any other way that it has? the universe is just a big domino set which was set off at the big bang and the laws of physics determine how it goes, how it has gone, and how it will keep going in that case, is there free will? and do we really control our own lives if we're just controlled by the laws of physics...

31st October 2003, 02:00	#133
AycorzFewdz	Your brain seems to walk out and leave everytime you post.

31st October 2003, 02:25	#135
AycorzFewdz	Look at the first post you made on my thread, what were you expecting, flowers?. Fucking bimbo.

31st October 2003, 10:55	#140
ZoSo	Let us pray the truth will be revealed to us.

31st October 2003, 15:21	#147
Uncle Gus	Man, every time I open this thread, all I hear is "WAHP WAHP WAHP."

31st October 2003, 15:24	#148
Cinclant	This thread needs more anti-"WAHP WAHP WAHP." obviously.

31st October 2003, 15:24	#149
TnT	That's God beating you around the ears with the clue stick

31st October 2003, 19:24	#151
Uncle Gus	Nah, like the kind of "wahp" noise that you make while simultaneously opening and closing your hand like a mouth, in mockery of the person(s) speaking.