The God Delusion

[Xanatos]

"Our Western politicians avoid mentioning the R word (religion), and instead characterize their battle as a war against 'terror', as though terror were a kind of spirit or force, with a will and a mind of its own. Or they characterize terrorists as motivated by pure 'evil'. But they are not motivated by evil. However misguided we may think them, they are motivated, like the Christian murderers of abortion doctors, by what they perceive to be righteousness, faithfully pursuing what their religion tells them. They are not psychotic; they are religious idealists who, by their own lights, are rational. They perceive their acts to be good, not because of some warped personal idiosyncrasy, and not because they have been possessed by Satan, but because they have been brought up, from the cradle, to have total and unquestioning faith. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ht/5372458.stm

Can't wait to get my copy

[Unemazezamer]

First.

And I know, I JUST KNOW, this thread is going to turn into another religion flame-fest.

/puts popcorn in the microwave and starts melting butter 'n' honey

[Xanatos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWL1ZMH3-54

[cEvin]

looks good~

[DrTiTus]

Sweet, interesting interview

[Xanatos]

The Root of All Evil

Part One - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB2vmj8eyMk
Part Two - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGeL1yFeK6I
Part Three - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76UDVB-ofpI

[Lightspeed]

.

[?>Superman]

Let it all out man.

[Whiplash]

Super bonus points for mention of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

[Macca@Work]

*yawn*fart*beep* huh?

[crocos]

Nice job of restraining yourself there Lightspeed. Well done

[Dwight]

Originally Posted by Xanatos

"They are not psychotic; .."

Yeah I mean, what red blooded Christian hasn't thought of murdering an abortion doctor?

[seanfish]

^^^

lol

[flic]

red blooded christian?

you mean you weirdo's have different colours of blood?

[seanfish]

some of them are actually Grey infiltrators

[EvilLumpy]

I'm curious

but aren't psychotic people also - by their own lights - rational, most of the time?

but yeah I'm not touching this one

[Simon]

Originally Posted by seanfish

some of them are actually Grey infiltrators

Goddamn senior citizens!

[Trigger]

Religion is just the varying amount of influence the temporal lobe section of the brain has on individuals. Variation accounts for some people being more or less religious.
They can trigger religious experiences with magnetic simulation to stimulate that part of the brain.

and that's where religion comes from, thanks for listening

reference: BBC Brain Story documentary ep1

[StN]

Oh - I blame high voltage transmission lines, and magnetic mattress underlays.

[Whiplash]

I blame planet-X and it's magnetic force on our auras ...

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Trigger

Religion is just the varying amount of influence the temporal lobe section of the brain has on individuals. Variation accounts for some people being more or less religious.
They can trigger religious experiences with magnetic simulation to stimulate that part of the brain.

and that's where religion comes from, thanks for listening

reference: BBC Brain Story documentary ep1

That explains experiences which people might attribute to God, but that's not conclusive evidence to the origins of religion.

[StN]

So, if you bone a chick on a magnetic underlay, she is more likely to scream out "Oh God!"????

[Unemazezamer]

Originally Posted by StN

So, if you bone a chick on a magnetic underlay, she is more likely to scream out "Oh God!"????

Ahahahaha

[Cinclant]

Originally Posted by Trigger

Religion is just the varying amount of influence the temporal lobe section of the brain has on individuals. Variation accounts for some people being more or less religious.
They can trigger religious experiences with magnetic simulation to stimulate that part of the brain.

and that's where religion comes from, thanks for listening

reference: BBC Brain Story documentary ep1

Like Lightspeed said, you could attribute the above to the 'feeling' of God, or having a 'religious experience' but not the general belief in religion itself.

[Cinclant]

Originally Posted by StN

So, if you bone a chick on a magnetic underlay, she is more likely to scream out "Oh God!"????

[Trigger]

Originally Posted by Cinclant

Like Lightspeed said, you could attribute the above to the 'feeling' of God, or having a 'religious experience' but not the general belief in religion itself.

is it not obvious how this feeling has led to people inventing religion?

I mean, it seems pretty obvious to me, but then again I'm not a religious person in the sense of faith surpressing any sort of logic and reason

[Unemazezamer]

Originally Posted by Trigger

is it not obvious how this feeling has led to people inventing religion?

I mean, it seems pretty obvious to me, but then again I'm not a religious person in the sense of faith surpressing any sort of logic and reason

Is that really you speaking? Or that parasite in your neck?

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Trigger

Religion is just the varying amount of influence the temporal lobe section of the brain has on individuals. Variation accounts for some people being more or less religious.
They can trigger religious experiences with magnetic simulation to stimulate that part of the brain.

and that's where religion comes from, thanks for listening

reference: BBC Brain Story documentary ep1

I wonder. If a "PRAISE-THE-LORDAH!" nutcase were to have that section of his brain damaged or removed, would he then no longer be a nutcase?

[Cinclant]

Originally Posted by Trigger

is it not obvious how this feeling has led to people inventing religion?

I don't think you can claim that the feeling led to the invention of religion, though it most certainly led people to become religious. Religions and Gods were first created by people as a way of explaining the world around them - like the sun, moon, thunder, lightning and wind. Once these religious structures were in place things like 'religious experiences' and hallucination via sleep paralysis most certainly led to conversion. In fact the same sort of experiences you mention also lead a lot of people to believe in UFO abductions and ghosts.

[Cinclant]

Originally Posted by Simon

I wonder. If a "PRAISE-THE-LORDAH!" nutcase were to have that section of his brain damaged or removed, would he then no longer be a nutcase?

You're suggesting LFF, Lobotomies For Fundies?

[Simon]

Well, we'd have to get religious fervour classified as a mental defect before that.

First things first.

[Trigger]

Originally Posted by Simon

I wonder. If a "PRAISE-THE-LORDAH!" nutcase were to have that section of his brain damaged or removed, would he then no longer be a nutcase?

Certainly seems to work that way. People suffering from temporal lobe epilepsy have been known to become very religious (Van Gough, who became very creative as a result of his epilepsy, and then turned very religious and eventually crazy as his condition worsened/changed), so I don't see why it wouldn't work the other way around. Let's try out your proposal on central USA.

And yeah that's a good point Cinc. Religion was probably originally invented for the purposes of explaining natural elements, but has since been converted into a tool for control exploiting the part of the brain aforementioned.

[ilk]

Actually, I think you'll find that God put the evidence of a link between the temporal lobe and religious experiences there as a test of faith. You failed. See you in hell.

[Lightspeed]

Using the lobe thing as an argument against God is about as bad as using the shape of bananas and their convenient packaging as an argument for God.

[PsyK]

^^ fair call

but seriously, it's only rational if i'm right, and there's no way that temporal lobe thing means the flying spaghetti monster aint real!

[samael]

Originally Posted by Xanatos

The Root of All Evil

Part One - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB2vmj8eyMk
Part Two - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGeL1yFeK6I
Part Three - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76UDVB-ofpI

After the quickest of looks, those links compile ony the first episode, the second entitled IIRC "the virus of faith".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PqdC...s%20of%20faith

Um, the part with the jewish islamic guy is fucking hilarious - I though dawkins was gonna get a hiding "you dress your women like WHORES!".... Can't remember which episode its in....

There is another series of 6 30(?) minute episodes called "the athieism tapes". 6 interviews with athiests of which one of them is dawkins

Its a bit less exciting than "root of all evil", but still worth watching - the final interview with Daniel Dennett is really interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Atheism_Tapes

I am sure everyone has heard of them - in fact, I think I heard of the program on these very forums Couldn't find them on youtube - maybe they can be obtained from the bbc website....

[samael]

Originally Posted by Whiplash

Super bonus points for mention of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Fuck yeah Maybe he is still a nerd - I was sure he wrote his own text editor while writing an early book, but I can't find it on google. Maybe it was someone else....

[Mabd]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Using the lobe thing as an argument against God is about as bad as using the shape of bananas and their convenient packaging as an argument for God.

Personally, I wouldn't argue against God. Way I figure it, I don't know for sure what is beyond my life. However, I will argue until my dying day against religion because they are not the same thing at all.

<the following is not directed to you, Lightspeed; the "You" in the following is the impersonal You>

Belief in God, faith in God, does *NOT* require religion. Religion is humanity's way of making the unexplainable palatable to the masses. Whether it's for social conditioning, civic stability, the good of humanity as a whole, or a tool of the corrupt to retain power is irrelevant. YOU don't need the Church to have a personal connection to your God. YOU don't need a Pastor, Ayatollah, Priest, Mullah, Sufi or Minister to reaffirm YOUR connection to the divine. Religion is unnecessary - yet, when you state this 90% of the faithful* will respond that you are attacking GOD, Yahweh, Allah, etc.

That is not a dialogue, that is a blind adherence to ridiculous stories because someone told you that they were true. Without going into them *again*, ad nauseam, it has been well documented about historical inaccuracies in many of the Holy texts, but in this instance I'll say Bible, yet many faithful will swear on the breath of their mother that EVERYthing is TRUE regardless of how often it is shown - fearful that if *one* piece of historical data is shown to be inaccurate GOD must not exist! How absurd is that? IF you believe GOD exists - then for you s/he-it does! Why does it require that *I* must believe he also exists to verify what YOU believe?

People are social animals. People will naturally group (even in virtual land, such as this) with others of a like mind. Religion exploits those who believe in the same version of GOD, sometimes for good (i.e. St Johns), sometimes for bad (Scientology, Christian Camp) ... yet someone can never have gone to any religious based entity and still have a close and personal relationship to their GOD. Religion != Faith


*Denomination excluded purposefully

[samael]

Originally Posted by Mabd

Personally, I wouldn't argue against God. Way I figure it, I don't know for sure what is beyond my life. However, I will argue until my dying day against religion because they are not the same thing at all.

<the following is not directed to you, Lightspeed; the "You" in the following is the impersonal You>

Belief in God, faith in God, does *NOT* require religion. Religion is humanity's way of making the unexplainable palatable to the masses. Whether it's for social conditioning, civic stability, the good of humanity as a whole, or a tool of the corrupt to retain power is irrelevant. YOU don't need the Church to have a personal connection to your God. YOU don't need a Pastor, Ayatollah, Priest, Mullah, Sufi or Minister to reaffirm YOUR connection to the divine. Religion is unnecessary - yet, when you state this 90% of the faithful* will respond that you are attacking GOD, Yahweh, Allah, etc.

That is not a dialogue, that is a blind adherence to ridiculous stories because someone told you that they were true. Without going into them *again*, ad nauseam, it has been well documented about historical inaccuracies in many of the Holy texts, but in this instance I'll say Bible, yet many faithful will swear on the breath of their mother that EVERYthing is TRUE regardless of how often it is shown - fearful that if *one* piece of historical data is shown to be inaccurate GOD must not exist! How absurd is that? IF you believe GOD exists - then for you s/he-it does! Why does it require that *I* must believe he also exists to verify what YOU believe?

People are social animals. People will naturally group (even in virtual land, such as this) with others of a like mind. Religion exploits those who believe in the same version of GOD, sometimes for good (i.e. St Johns), sometimes for bad (Scientology, Christian Camp) ... yet someone can never have gone to any religious based entity and still have a close and personal relationship to their GOD. Religion != Faith


*Denomination excluded purposefully

Unfortunately, its the faith part is the dangerous part, not the "like minded people grouping together" part.

[seanfish]

Originally Posted by Mabd

Personally, I wouldn't argue against God. Way I figure it, I don't know for sure what is beyond my life. However, I will argue until my dying day against religion because they are not the same thing at all.

<the following is not directed to you, Lightspeed; the "You" in the following is the impersonal You>

Belief in God, faith in God, does *NOT* require religion. Religion is humanity's way of making the unexplainable palatable to the masses. Whether it's for social conditioning, civic stability, the good of humanity as a whole, or a tool of the corrupt to retain power is irrelevant. YOU don't need the Church to have a personal connection to your God. YOU don't need a Pastor, Ayatollah, Priest, Mullah, Sufi or Minister to reaffirm YOUR connection to the divine. Religion is unnecessary - yet, when you state this 90% of the faithful* will respond that you are attacking GOD, Yahweh, Allah, etc.

That is not a dialogue, that is a blind adherence to ridiculous stories because someone told you that they were true. Without going into them *again*, ad nauseam, it has been well documented about historical inaccuracies in many of the Holy texts, but in this instance I'll say Bible, yet many faithful will swear on the breath of their mother that EVERYthing is TRUE regardless of how often it is shown - fearful that if *one* piece of historical data is shown to be inaccurate GOD must not exist! How absurd is that? IF you believe GOD exists - then for you s/he-it does! Why does it require that *I* must believe he also exists to verify what YOU believe?

People are social animals. People will naturally group (even in virtual land, such as this) with others of a like mind. Religion exploits those who believe in the same version of GOD, sometimes for good (i.e. St Johns), sometimes for bad (Scientology, Christian Camp) ... yet someone can never have gone to any religious based entity and still have a close and personal relationship to their GOD. Religion != Faith


*Denomination excluded purposefully

Yes, but why is there a necessity to have *a* god in the first place? Once you've deconstructed religion what's left?