Vigilante Justice in NZ - a new trend? - Page 5

[Malks] Pixie · 15th February 2008, 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by StN

Hmm - does this mean I need to keep old half full cans in a gun case in my garage?

Why would you? Are you a retailer?

[Of course aside from the fact that you're supposed to keep them in a secure location if they're flammable anyway]

Pixie

StN · 15th February 2008, 11:52

What about Sharpies, Vivids and diamond scribes?

[Malks] Pixie · 15th February 2008, 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by StN

What about Sharpies, Vivids and diamond scribes?

Well they're a totally seperate issue aren't they ;-)

Pixie

Haydos · 15th February 2008, 12:04

The overall issue here is the lack of ability Labour have shown in leading this country when it comes to crime.

You take the last 12 or however many years that Uncle Helen has run the country and you look at the increase of violent crime.

Police are too busy catching people doing 70 in 50k areas to worry about preventing those raping, beating and murdering others. Catch em afterwards, that's what the police seem to be about.

Saladin · 15th February 2008, 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haydos

You take the last 12 or however many years that Uncle Helen has run the country and you look at the increase of violent crime.

Link to stats?

StN · 15th February 2008, 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Malks] Pixie

Well they're a totally seperate issue aren't they ;-)

Pixie

Ahh - so this is only a half arsed attempt at solving the problem then - I'd have expected a little more in election year...

Haydos · 15th February 2008, 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saladin

Link to stats?

Do you really need me to link you to stats or would you just prefer to compare news headlines from 1997 compared to 2007...?

[Malks] Pixie · 15th February 2008, 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by StN

Ahh - so this is only a half arsed attempt at solving the problem then - I'd have expected a little more in election year...

Don't ask me - I was simply commenting on your question about storing your paints - not on the policy in general.

Personally I don't think that restricting access to the product is going to make one bit of difference.

Pixie

Gentl e · 15th February 2008, 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haydos

Do you really need me to link you to stats or would you just prefer to compare news headlines from 1997 compared to 2007...?

Either, you choose.

Juju · 15th February 2008, 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haydos

...prefer to compare news headlines from 1997 compared to 2007...?

What an odd statement. How the hell are number of headlines indicitive to numbers of violent crime? Anyone that references newspaper headlines as a bonafide statistic needs a head examination.

And for the record, I don't believe violent crime has gone up by a significant number per head of population.

Gentl e · 15th February 2008, 14:06

I'll start:

Crime Statistics for fiscal year ending 30 June 2007
Released 1 October 2007

Overall recorded offences per 10,000 population:

Haydos · 15th February 2008, 14:13

Ah yes, the usual bugbear

RECORDED CRIME statistics.

Vs ACTUAL Crime statistics.

Cheeps · 15th February 2008, 14:27

ITS ALL THE RAP MUSIC THE KIDS LISTEN TO.

Gentl e · 15th February 2008, 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haydos

Ah yes, the usual bugbear

RECORDED CRIME statistics.

Vs ACTUAL Crime statistics.

Better than just pulling shit out of your arse

So, where are those stats??

Haydos · 15th February 2008, 14:40

Like I said before.

Only a very obtuse member of society would require stats to indicate that high level violent crime has increased in the past 10 years in NZ.

fixed_truth · 15th February 2008, 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haydos

Ah yes, the usual bugbear

RECORDED CRIME statistics.

Vs ACTUAL Crime statistics.

LOL - think u can sneak out the backdoor

Draco T Bastard · 15th February 2008, 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haydos

Ah yes, the usual bugbear

RECORDED CRIME statistics.

Vs ACTUAL Crime statistics.

Well, you can't actually count unrecorded statistics can you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haydos

Like I said before.

Only a very obtuse member of society would require stats to indicate that high level violent crime has increased in the past 10 years in NZ.

No, people who actually like to know WTF they're talking about require stats and NOT just going on hearsay.

Russian · 15th February 2008, 14:41

Jesus fucking christ, get a load of this dittohead.

HELEN LIED PEOPLE DIED!

A Corpse · 15th February 2008, 14:42

Increasing the fine from $200 to $2000 will just increase the stats on how much is owed by people who have outstanding fines.

Haydos · 15th February 2008, 14:44

A:Migrant Population has increased since 1997 - those statistics represent recorded offences per 10,000 people, not overall recorded crime statistics.

B: Violent crime is quite different to regular crime

C: The last two years, more murders have been committed than any previous two in NZ history (not counting wars, etc)

Anything else you'd like me to fill you in on? Only morons require statistics to validate a point so simple to see, violent crimes have increased tenfold in the last 12 years and continue to increase, meaning more beatings, murders and rape than ever before.

If you want statistics, go fuck your maths teacher.. statistics aren't required to report something so obvious.

Draco T Bastard · 15th February 2008, 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Corpse

Increasing the fine from $200 to $2000 will just increase the stats on how much is owed by people who have outstanding fines.

heh - that was my reaction to it as well. The kids can't afford the $200 never mind $2000 - not that they'll ever pay it anyway.

fixed_truth · 15th February 2008, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Corpse

Increasing the fine from $200 to $2000 will just increase the stats on how much is owed by people who have outstanding fines

yeah - i think that was just a token gesture to those conservative fence sitters

Draco T Bastard · 15th February 2008, 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haydos

A:Migrant Population has increased since 1997 - those statistics represent recorded offences per 10,000 people, not overall recorded crime statistics.

B: Violent crime is quite different to regular crime

C: The last two years, more murders have been committed than any previous two in NZ history (not counting wars, etc)

Anything else you'd like me to fill you in on? Only morons require statistics to validate a point so simple to see, violent crimes have increased tenfold in the last 12 years and continue to increase, meaning more beatings, murders and rape than ever before.

If you want statistics, go fuck your maths teacher.. statistics aren't required to report something so obvious.

yes they fucken are you moron. Nothing can be counted unless it's actually recorded.

having a basic grasp of mathematics also helps. 10 fold is effectively 2^10 and I really don't think violent crime has increased a thousand times in the last 12 years. If it had we would all be dead.

Haydos · 15th February 2008, 14:54

Aw, poor little guy is getting frustrated and requires personal insults to attempt to make a non-makeable point.

Historical media is a record of increasing violent crimes resulting in murder and rape. Like I said, compare headlines of 1997 to 2007, compare number of murders, do what ever the fuck you want to do, you'll come up with the OBVIOUS conclusion that violent crime has increased and especially murder in the last 10-12 years.

Now, rather than get your knickers in another twist and give yourself an erection by using profanity to talk to someone over the internet (you big man you) - go sit outside on the naughty step and think about what you've done.

Cheeps · 15th February 2008, 14:55

population increase > violence increase?
Question answered (partially).

Haydos · 15th February 2008, 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheeps

population increase > violence increase?
Question answered (partially).

Sigh, seeing as none of you will do your own research and constantly berate me as someone telling falsities

Attempted Murders doubled, Manslaughters doubled, infanticide has doubled, Murders have gone up by over half.

Taken from http://www.stats.govt.nz/analytical-...lent-crime.htm

Between 1994 and 2000, the number of recorded murders ranged from 40 to 66 per year, attempted murders (31 to 61), manslaughters (8 to 23), infanticide (0 to 2), abortion-related offences (1 to 6) and aiding suicide and pact (0 to 7).

By the way, since 2000? I'd not be surprised if Murders have increased to an even higher level.

Now instead of being a bunch of ass bandits about statistics, how about we go back to historical media and the nature of headlines as a way of recording the climate of the country.

Gentl e · 15th February 2008, 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haydos

Aw, poor little guy is getting frustrated and requires personal insults to attempt to make a non-makeable point.

Historical media is a record of increasing violent crimes resulting in murder and rape. Like I said, compare headlines of 1997 to 2007, compare number of murders, do what ever the fuck you want to do, you'll come up with the OBVIOUS conclusion that violent crime has increased and especially murder in the last 10-12 years.

Now, rather than get your knickers in another twist and give yourself an erection by using profanity to talk to someone over the internet (you big man you) - go sit outside on the naughty step and think about what you've done.

We just requested some stats to back up your rather flimsy argument, if you can't do that just say so - sheesh, way to dig a hole and make yourself look like a total tool.

Cheeps · 15th February 2008, 15:02

Alright I blame labour!
(cause they're easy to blame!)

Haydos · 15th February 2008, 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gentl e

We just requested some stats to back up your rather flimsy argument, if you can't do that just say so - sheesh, way to dig a hole and make yourself look like a total tool.

I'm sorry that you're used to having mommy do everything for you and you can't take an idea without someone having to back it up when the idea is so damn obvious to anyone who isn't too young to remember as far back as 10 years ago.

Haydos · 15th February 2008, 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheeps

Alright I blame labour!
(cause they're easy to blame!)

What crime prevention policies have Labour bought in their time during power while these rates continue to increase?

What steps have they taken to ensure that less child abuse takes place? They made a law which is being used in divorce courts more than anywhere else and causing good parents who slip up with a PAT ON THE BACKSIDE to be arrested by smartass police officers (Anti Smacking Bill)

StN · 15th February 2008, 15:05

Cheeps · 15th February 2008, 15:08

No one has actually been arrested for a pat on the backside.
People bitch and moan about Labour being a nanny state, yet why does it have to step in now to be the countries parent again?
When it seems parents are failing.
Take a look at the UK and the States, they have tougher crime laws (the UK not as extreme as the states) yet their is A LOT worse going on there than here.

Haydos · 15th February 2008, 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheeps

No one has actually been arrested for a pat on the backside.
People bitch and moan about Labour being a nanny state, yet why does it have to step in now to be the countries parent again?
When it seems parents are failing.
Take a look at the UK and the States, they have tougher crime laws (the UK not as extreme as the states) yet their is A LOT worse going on there than here.

There was a man arrested for flicking his sons ear in Christchurch, not even a few months ago.

Lightspeed · 15th February 2008, 15:16

When people use the word "obvious" in such an argument it means they have a fundamental assumption. Such an assumption cannot be explained or proved because "it's obvious".

Haydos · 15th February 2008, 15:17

Gee, funny how I proved it with statistics indicating that murder, attempted murder, manslaughter etc have all increased well above and beyond population rates..

Cheeps · 15th February 2008, 15:18

Haydos if you have so many questions, give us some answers since Labour and NZ are incapable of fixing this, we leave it to you.
Just remember if you fuck up, people will write in and complain to the herald, or write strongly worded posts on internet forums.

Haydos · 15th February 2008, 15:21

Pay me the wage and benefit package of a politician and I might

I don't claim to have the answers, what I do claim is that Labour do not have the answers and have not had the answers since the late 90s.

It's not my job to think up solutions to these issues but pointing out that Labour have added very little crime prevention while this issue has continued to grow over the last decade is a worry.

Not to mention the affordability crisis of housing, meaning even more families are likely to be poor due to increasing rent/mortgages - meaning even more children are likely to be involved in petty crime which of course leads into more violent crime.

Lightspeed · 15th February 2008, 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haydos

Gee, funny how I proved it with statistics indicating that murder, attempted murder, manslaughter etc have all increased well above and beyond population rates..

Why is it funny?

Haydos · 15th February 2008, 15:23

You know, funny in that whole hee hee, haa haa sense.. rather than the traditional ha ha ha sense..

It was more so the irony of your post, stating I was only using the word "obvious" to cover up the fact that I couldn't find any information to support my P.O.V

More so, I didn't see why I required to provide information when such trends were OBVIOUS (theres that lovely word again) to anyone following current affairs in NZ.

Cheeps · 15th February 2008, 15:26

A majority of countries have these problems that you've listed.
It seems like its a societal flaw, or a modern hyper capitalist by product...

15th February 2008, 14:42	#179
A Corpse talkative lurker	Increasing the fine from $200 to $2000 will just increase the stats on how much is owed by people who have outstanding fines. __________________ Broke my addiction! Bye bye Eve, hello Minecraft. Wait... >_<

15th February 2008, 11:52	#162
StN I have detailed files	What about Sharpies, Vivids and diamond scribes?

15th February 2008, 12:04	#164
Haydos	The overall issue here is the lack of ability Labour have shown in leading this country when it comes to crime. You take the last 12 or however many years that Uncle Helen has run the country and you look at the increase of violent crime. Police are too busy catching people doing 70 in 50k areas to worry about preventing those raping, beating and murdering others. Catch em afterwards, that's what the police seem to be about.

15th February 2008, 14:06	#171
Gentl e	I'll start: Crime Statistics for fiscal year ending 30 June 2007 Released 1 October 2007 Overall recorded offences per 10,000 population: Last edited by Gentl e : 15th February 2008 at 14:09.

15th February 2008, 14:13	#172
Haydos	Ah yes, the usual bugbear RECORDED CRIME statistics. Vs ACTUAL Crime statistics.

15th February 2008, 14:27	#173
Cheeps	ITS ALL THE RAP MUSIC THE KIDS LISTEN TO.

15th February 2008, 14:40	#175
Haydos	Like I said before. Only a very obtuse member of society would require stats to indicate that high level violent crime has increased in the past 10 years in NZ.

15th February 2008, 14:41	#178
Russian	Jesus fucking christ, get a load of this dittohead. HELEN LIED PEOPLE DIED!

15th February 2008, 14:44	#180
Haydos	A:Migrant Population has increased since 1997 - those statistics represent recorded offences per 10,000 people, not overall recorded crime statistics. B: Violent crime is quite different to regular crime C: The last two years, more murders have been committed than any previous two in NZ history (not counting wars, etc) Anything else you'd like me to fill you in on? Only morons require statistics to validate a point so simple to see, violent crimes have increased tenfold in the last 12 years and continue to increase, meaning more beatings, murders and rape than ever before. If you want statistics, go fuck your maths teacher.. statistics aren't required to report something so obvious.

15th February 2008, 14:54	#184
Haydos	Aw, poor little guy is getting frustrated and requires personal insults to attempt to make a non-makeable point. Historical media is a record of increasing violent crimes resulting in murder and rape. Like I said, compare headlines of 1997 to 2007, compare number of murders, do what ever the fuck you want to do, you'll come up with the OBVIOUS conclusion that violent crime has increased and especially murder in the last 10-12 years. Now, rather than get your knickers in another twist and give yourself an erection by using profanity to talk to someone over the internet (you big man you) - go sit outside on the naughty step and think about what you've done.

15th February 2008, 14:55	#185
Cheeps	population increase > violence increase? Question answered (partially).

15th February 2008, 15:02	#188
Cheeps	Alright I blame labour! (cause they're easy to blame!)

15th February 2008, 15:05	#191
StN I have detailed files

15th February 2008, 15:08	#192
Cheeps	No one has actually been arrested for a pat on the backside. People bitch and moan about Labour being a nanny state, yet why does it have to step in now to be the countries parent again? When it seems parents are failing. Take a look at the UK and the States, they have tougher crime laws (the UK not as extreme as the states) yet their is A LOT worse going on there than here.

15th February 2008, 15:16	#194
Lightspeed	When people use the word "obvious" in such an argument it means they have a fundamental assumption. Such an assumption cannot be explained or proved because "it's obvious". __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

15th February 2008, 15:17	#195
Haydos	Gee, funny how I proved it with statistics indicating that murder, attempted murder, manslaughter etc have all increased well above and beyond population rates..

15th February 2008, 15:18	#196
Cheeps	Haydos if you have so many questions, give us some answers since Labour and NZ are incapable of fixing this, we leave it to you. Just remember if you fuck up, people will write in and complain to the herald, or write strongly worded posts on internet forums.

15th February 2008, 15:21	#197
Haydos	Pay me the wage and benefit package of a politician and I might I don't claim to have the answers, what I do claim is that Labour do not have the answers and have not had the answers since the late 90s. It's not my job to think up solutions to these issues but pointing out that Labour have added very little crime prevention while this issue has continued to grow over the last decade is a worry. Not to mention the affordability crisis of housing, meaning even more families are likely to be poor due to increasing rent/mortgages - meaning even more children are likely to be involved in petty crime which of course leads into more violent crime.

15th February 2008, 15:23	#199
Haydos	You know, funny in that whole hee hee, haa haa sense.. rather than the traditional ha ha ha sense.. It was more so the irony of your post, stating I was only using the word "obvious" to cover up the fact that I couldn't find any information to support my P.O.V More so, I didn't see why I required to provide information when such trends were OBVIOUS (theres that lovely word again) to anyone following current affairs in NZ.

15th February 2008, 15:26	#200
Cheeps	A majority of countries have these problems that you've listed. It seems like its a societal flaw, or a modern hyper capitalist by product... Last edited by Cheeps : 15th February 2008 at 15:27.